2 Birds In A Tree

Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

Joined:

Oct 18, 2017

Letters:

iii,804

Ratings:

+2,898

Faith:

Dharmic
I'd be interested in your explanation of this passage from the Mundaka Upanishad (three.1.1-4):
"2 birds of the aforementioned kind and inseperable every bit friends, cling to the same tree. One of them eats the sweet fruit, the other looks on without eating. On the same tree sits a human, immersed in sorrows and grieving for his own impotence. Just when he sees the other Lord contented and realises his glory, and so the grief melts away."
- Creative x i
SalixIncendium Veteran Member
Staff Fellow member Premium Member

Joined:

Dec eighteen, 2016

Messages:

17,451

Ratings:

+xxx,843

Religion:

Hindu

The "Two Birds on a Tree" is a parable of the Jivatman and Paramatman.
The bird who sits lower in the tree is eating the fruit of that tree; sometimes he eats a sweet fruit and is gleeful, and sometimes he eats a bitter one and is sorrowful.

The other bird sits at the top of the tree in the sunlight, looking on without eating.

At times, the lower bird, after eating the bitter fruit and being in sorrow, glances up at the higher bird and sees him looking on in the sunlight, at-home, majestic, basking in his glory, and unattached to the desire to consume the fruit. The lower bird eats a sweet fruit, soon forgets almost the higher bird and goes on eating.

Equally the lower bird eats, it ascends college in the tree, closer to the higher bird, repeating the aforementioned wheel...sometimes eating a sugariness fruit, sometimes eating a bitter fruit, occasionally glancing up at the higher bird, then eating a sweet fruit and forgetting the higher bird.

Eventually, the lower bird reaches the summit of the tree and soaks upwardly the sunlight. He becomes calm and majestic, just like the other bird, and realizes that there was just one bird all along. The lower bird was merely illusory, a manifestation of the one above.

The upper bird is a representation of Paramatman, the cocky without attachments.
The lower bird is a representation of the Jivatman, the cocky that is jump to earthly desires.

The parable demonstrates that both are one.
SalixIncendium Veteran Member
Staff Member Premium Member

Joined:

December 18, 2016

Messages:

17,451

Ratings:

+thirty,843

Religion:

Hindu
Hither is a talk with Swami Sarvapriyananda that discusses these verses in the Mundaka Upanishad.
- Like x 3
Jedster Well-Known Member

Joined:

Sep 15, 2015

Letters:

iii,114

Ratings:

+two,525

PMFJI, this reminds of Kabir, when he says
THERE is a strange tree, which stands without roots and bears fruits without blossoming;
It has no branches and no leaves, information technology is lotus all over.
Two birds sing there; i is the Guru, and the other the disciple:
The disciple chooses the manifold fruits of life and tastes them, and the Guru beholds him in joy.
What Kabîr says is hard to empathize: "The bird is beyond seeking, withal it is most clearly visible. The Formless is in the midst of all forms. I sing the glory of forms."
— The Bijak, Shabda # 24 (The Consummate Bijak of Kabir: Guru Kabir'due south Mystical Teachings on God-Realization
Aupmanyav Be your own guru

Joined:

May 5, 2007

Messages:

31,761

Ratings:

+fifteen,340

Religion:

Atheist, Advaita (Not-duality), Orthodox Hindu

Thank you for a prissy question to yous too.
shivsomashekhar Well-Known Member

Joined:

Jan 12, 2015

Messages:

1,075

Ratings:

+933

Religion:

Hindu
This statement appears in the Mundaka and likewise the Shvetashvatara (4.half-dozen-7). As in most cases, the exact interpretation will depend on who you inquire -
a) Ramanuja interprets the tree as the trunk (achit) and the birds as chit and Paramatma.

b) Shankara has his own interpretation, which can be found hither -
Principal Upanishads | Upanishads

c) Madhva interpets this poetry to mean the Jiva eats both sweetness and bitter fruit, while Paramatma does non eat the Jiva's fruit, etc...

This is as well one of the verses, which was used to support duality in medieval polemics past dualistic Vedanta doctrines against Advaita.
- Like x 1
Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

Joined:

October 18, 2017

Messages:

3,804

Ratings:

+2,898

Religion:

Dharmic

Initially I read this passage in a dualistic fashion, but I can see the possibility of a non-dualist estimation. Peradventure reflected (manifest?) consciousness and pure consciousness are two sides of the same coin?
Aupmanyav Exist your own guru

Joined:

May 5, 2007

Messages:

31,761

Ratings:

+15,340

Religion:

Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu

Notwithstanding at that place are ii sides of a coin, and that is dualistic. Real non-dualism should not take pure and impure consciousness, in that location is only one. Consciousness, as per my belief, is a property of brain. It dissipates with a persons death. Cipher remains of it. To think that something volition survive, is natural, understandable, just not the truth. What remains is atoms and molecules. They become and bring together billions of living and non-living things. It is chemic recycling, aught more than that. Simply this is too harsh a reality for humans, that is why people exercise not accept it and await for places to hide and escape this reality. True enlightenment is when one realizes this. This is nirvana. Zip will bother one when he\she accepts this reality.
Martin Spam, wonderful spam (encarmine vikings!)

Joined:

Oct 18, 2017

Letters:

3,804

Ratings:

+2,898

Religion:

Dharmic

And then how does your view map onto the OP passage? Are you lot saying there is actually just the transient sense-consciousness of the "lower" bird?
Aupmanyav Be your own guru

Joined:

May v, 2007

Letters:

31,761

Ratings:

+15,340

Religion:

Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu

I accept two birds also. We Hindus know that individual views will differ. Mine is for me but or for those who may take my kind of views. For you, there may be some other, which is every bit valid. So, the question is not how I see it, my seeing is irrelevant, information technology is how YOU encounter information technology.
Hinduism provides this liberty. It does non fetter y'all.
Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

Joined:

October 18, 2017

Messages:

three,804

Ratings:

+two,898

Faith:

Dharmic

Sure, and in time I will develop my own understanding of these texts, and how they relate to the experiences I've had.
Just I'm notwithstanding at the stage of exploring texts and interpretations, then I'd be interested in hearing what yous retrieve the 2 birds represent, practically speaking.
Joined:

Oct 25, 2012

Messages:

two,745

Ratings:

+ii,115

Hinduism emphasizes disquisitional examination in order to distinguish between the 18-carat teachings and fraudulent teachings.
Kabir on the need for critical exam to weed out the false and fraudulent...

The Upanishads cite the instance of the pseudoscholar Virochana who misinterpreted the Atman to exist the body instead of pure consciousness as mentioned in Vedanta. Virochana is often cited as a classic instance of delusion and misinterpretation.

The Srimad Bhagavatam (12.3.32) take prophesised that the Vedic teachings will exist contaminated by speculative interpretations of pseudoscholars in the Kali Yuga.

This is bound to happen in the nowadays Kali Yuga where truth is reduced to a quarter.

Then do be prudent when discussing Vedanta and it is important to go by the words of reputed scholars and scriptural teachings hither.